Minutes

Time is too short. An hour long class with more than a dozen participants leaves little room for exploration. and busy lives leave little room for preparation. So I'll try, here, to afford you a few more minutes of engagement, without too much wasting of time. Take what you can from the comments and resources presented in these pages. And feel free to ask questions and make comments that I can research and explore on your behalf. I am not so quick with words as Peterson, so it may take a while for my thoughts to process.

What can Christians learn from Jordan Peterson

 

Dec 12, 2018 - Freedom of speech

 

Dec 5, 2018 - Tell the truth -- or, at least, don't lie

Life is suffering: For Peterson, this is foundational. But it's not an injunction or even a restriction. It's not exclusive and sometimes it can even even seem remote. But, over the course of history and throughout the world, suffering is pervasive and deeply felt. It needs to be understood in oreder to make it bearable.

Nov 28, 2018 - The Great Sacrifice

Summary: God created a very good world for us to live in. He did this by speaking, and He formed us, in His image, to continue, thoughtfully forming our world. The aim of this creativity is to transform the endless supply of chaotic potential into something orderly and habitable, for the good of everyone. This makes for a deeply meaningful existence.

Though we are vulnerable to the relentless encroachment of chaos, our limitations are offset by developing competence and through the help of God and our neighbours. But our fall into sin has demoralized and isolated us, making us afraid. This trouble is compounded by the evil that poisons us, and everyone around us, with arrogance and resentment.

We know that things needs to be set right. We seek redemption by sacrificing treasures, even our selves, for the sake of a higher good -- by seeking meaning rather than happiness. In this mode of being, we imitate Christ (relying on the grace that God offers us, through His ultimate sacrifice).

Nov 21, 2018 - 12 Rules: Chapter 4

Pareto distribution: The Pareto distribution isn't actually mentioned in Chapter 4 (it is in Chapter 1), but the video clip for this chapter does. It seems plausible for the distribution of wealth among all people, but not so much as a factor in how individuals experience the benefits of their own action (aiming high). Peterson actually describes compounding, incremental improvement as having 'Pareto distribution like consequences'. Those of us who slog through life seem not to be on anything other than an arithmetically constrained up-ramp. But I suppose you could take Bill Gates and Steve Jobs as examples of people who reached the moon with their exponentially prospering exploits. Maybe the rest of us don't aim high enough.

Knitting: Knitting seems like a good analogy for the aim of life. There's no other way to do it except incrementally and tied in with what's already done.. It assumes a goal, say sweater, that's wildly different from other goals (eg. socks or mittens). Re-setting the aim on a whim generally doesn't go well. And, being knit together requires persistence to the end.

Equality with Christ: I sense some fear that we are 'playing at' Christ by taking Peterson to heart. But if we, as Christ's imitators, take on the same attitude towards Christ as Christ does towards God in Philippians 2: 6-7, then this is no problem.

November 7 & 14, 2018 - 12 Rules: Chapters 1-3

Rules, rules, rules: Peterson's twelve rules seem a bit arbitrary. They're definitely not a reprise of the ten commandments. And they're only a selection of Peterson's much earlier "42 Rules for Life", his immensely popular (8k) response to the Quora question "What are the most valuable things everyone should know?". Perhaps it's that these twelve are aimed at our time and that's the reason for the book's success.

Community/Reciprocity: The great commandment could have read: "Love God and love your neighbour". But it doesn't. On the two extra words, "as yourself", hangs the whole of civilization. The 'give and take' required for any fully functioning society is repeatedly highlighted in Peterson's work, even to the point of encouraging community with yourself. (Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping.)

Self esteem: Wanting the best for yourself is not the same as having self esteem, at least as our culture currently understands this. Self esteem advocates tend to pass on grades and first place prizes for fear of wounding egos. Self esteem for our selfie world is wrapped up with demands for rights. But Peterson argues that what's best for yourself is to be so wrapped up in responsibility for others that you forget yourself.

 

October 31, 2019 - Class preempted by Pagan customs

October 24, 2018 - Redemption

Summary so far: God created a very good world for us to live in. He did this by speaking, and He formed us, in His image, to continue, thoughtfully forming our world. The aim of this creativity is to transform the endless supply of chaotic potential into something orderly and habitable, for the good of everyone. This makes for a deeply meaningful existence.

Though we are vulnerable to the relentless encroachment of chaos, our limitations are offset by developing competence and through the help of God and our neighbours. But our fall into sin has demoralized and isolated us, making us afraid. This trouble is compounded by the evil that poisons us, and everyone around us, with arrogance and resentment.

We know that things needs to be set right. We seek redemption by sacrificing treasures, even our selves, for the sake of a higher good -- by seeking meaning rather than happiness.

Preach Christ: It's always been a pet peeve of mine that preachers regularly leave Christ out of their sermons. Moralistic entreaties to right this wrong or live right are fine as far as they go but they're missing the big picture. So I can understand people having this reaction to Jordan Peterson, but then to characterize his work as antithetical to Christianity because it's not grounded in belief in Christ is to shoot yourself in the foot. I know from personal experience that faith in Christ's ultimate sacrifice and resurrection does not figure prominently in our day to day living. I struggle with knowledge that "faith without works is dead." A fuller reading of Jordan Peterson has actually helped me to make the connection between my belief in Christ and my living for Christ. I think Peterson effectively describes how being 'Christ like' looks and feels. I have not yet listened to Peterson's lecture "On the Death and Resurrection of Christ: A Psychological View", but this and his overall emphasis on sacrifice and redemption indicates that he takes Christ far more seriously than we tend to do.

Do Good: Is Peterson's doing good such a bad thing? I don't usually sense open hostility towards the philanthropic efforts of all manner of well meaning unbelievers just because they're not Christian. We celebrate the achievements of famous people and take to heart the pronouncements of social justice warriors, whatever their faith, and we also depend on the good intentions of the majority of ordinary folk in our secular society. Even if Peterson's good effect were not explicitly rooted in a fundamentally Christian framework it should still be laudable. Peterson's conversation with Dr. Oz makes his motives poignantly clear to me: Oz Talk: Jordan Peterson

Prescriptive/Descriptive: Christians easily trip over Peterson's God talk because it seems unorthodox, almost blasphemous coming from a non Christian. They'd rather be told to clean their room by Ophrah or Dr. Phil than by a dour, overly earnest dabbler in biblical motifs. It' helpful, then, to recognize that Peterson is describing the psychological significance of living with biblical values and recognizing their fundamental place at the root of a functionally good society. He is not prescribing 12 rules for life as some sort of indulgence that grants you eternal salvation. Full & final redemption is your choice to make, but in the interim see if you can recognize the process of sanctification in what Peterson has to say.

The 'Harry' Lens: the Harry Potter and Narnia series are widely regarded as significant bolsters for Christian belief. A recent article in Christian Courier explores this topic: The ‘Harry’ Lens Why engage culture through Harry Potter? Jordan Peterson is contributing to this conversation and speaks at that level, not at the level of Augustine and Bavinck.

October 17, 2018 - Tragedy vs Evil

Our vulnerable condition of existence: We are regularly confronted by our own finitude, limitations, insufficiency, inequalities and vulnerability. We often experience this, in our fallen world, as suffering and tragedy. But these conditions of existence also applied to Adam and Eve before the fall and will apply to our resurrected beings on the new earth. The experience will be different because there will be no evil to separate us from the love of God.

Consider the children: Adam and Eve were mandated, before the fall, to "be fruitful and increase in number." There is no reason to believe that this mandate will be abandoned on the new earth. So that means that, in paradise (not lost), women will give birth to helpless infants, who will be nurtured to overcome their limitations and vulnerability. And if children can demonstrate such a remarkable range of limitations, then there is good reason to suppose that everyone will always be limited in some way. Our own experiences of raising children (even in this fallen world) without being burdened by tragedy or suffering, points the way to the possibility of experiencing our vulnerability on the new earth without any negative overtones because of the loving care shown to us by God and our 'neigbours'.

Empathy: Peterson declares 'that vulnerablity can be confronted forthrightly, accepted and the appropriate decisions made.' This statement, and its larger context, indicate to me that Peterson is, by nature, empathetic and tolerant of people on a personal level, and quite naturally hostile to bullies.

October 10, 2018 - Fall

Shame & Fear: Adam's and Eve's nakedness and subsequent covering is most commonly understood to have primarily sexual connotations. But it seems short sighted to characterize our radical, multi-faceted fall into sin in such a limited way. I am more inclined to the interpretation presented here: Genesis 2 and 3 - Why was nudity suddenly a shame for Adam - Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange

Vulnerability: It's generally understood that Adam and Eve became vulnerable as a consequence of their fall into sin. I think it is better to see Adam and Eve as having been created vulnerable, even before the fall. Vulnerability is intrinsic to our relationship with God, who is invulnerable. God created humans to rely on him, totally, and thereby to glorify Him. Adam an Eve and our own resurrected beings might seem invulnerable, but only because of complete trust in God. When motives are pure, vulnerability remains. When sin prevails, vulnerability is laced with fear.

Chaos: For all the theologizing about 'chaos' (see: Bible Search Biblica - The International Bible Society ) the word itself only appears once (and then incidentally) in the Bible. So our use of the word and our understanding of the concept behind it are up for grabs. I suggest that chaos is not inherently bad, that it's created by God and that it will always be with us. The 'tohu va bohu', formless emptiness of Genesis 1:1 has been tamed by an astounding creative effort but it has not been eliminated. What is Chaos Theory – Fractal Foundation rings true to me as a way of thinking about chaos.

Cultural Mandate: This is a familiar concept in Reformed thought. (The Wikipedia article is obviously written from that perspective). It includes work, care taking (ruling), production (fruitful, filling the earth), procreation (increase in number), enjoyable possession (of all things), speaking (naming) and community (not being alone). No mention is made in Genesis 1 and 2 of sacrificing (for a good future standing) but this figures prominently in the story of Cain and Abel. I think Peterson's view of sacrifice serves as the psychological (motivational) basis for the cultural mandate. We give up what is personally and immediately expedient for a greater good. Sacrifice is implied in the cultural mandate and is fundamental to being both in Paradise and in the new heaven and earth.

Theology/Psychology: Jordan Peterson is a psychologist, not a theologian. It is a mistake to focus on his theological shortcomings, and it is a mistake to ignore his correctives of our own (endemic to Christianity) psychological shortcomings.

October 3, 2018 - Logos

 

September 26, 2018 - Creation

Humanism: "is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism and empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition." The first part of that definition (including the critical thinking) seems a good characterization of Peterson's thought and of Christianity. Not so much 'rationalism and empiricism', or the implied converse of 'dogma and superstition'.

Order and Chaos: Peterson does not identify these as being aligned with heaven and hell nor would he suggest that chaos is a result of the Fall. Chaos is seen more as formless potential that becomes ordered, habitable being through creative action by God and by his image bearers.

September 19, 2018 - Introduction

'Gotcha': The video that several referred to as evidence of Peterson's 'gotcha' personality is one of the most famous. It's an interview on British TV with Cathy Newman. Consider the aggressive, hostile posture of the interviewer, Peterson's unflappable patience and the bemusing reward of his own 'gotcha' moment, and you will understand why millions of people have relished the moment. In other contexts, especially among peers, Peterson stands his ground (though I have seen him admit that he is wrong, on the spot, when confronted). His manner can be very off-putting for some people (like my wife), but it seems to me (almost?) unfailingly polite and deferential. I am open to correction.

Saviour?: There's no doubt that Peterson is in it for his audience. He wants to help them. This follows naturally from twenty years of half time work as a practicing clinical psychologist, but it is (obviously to me) a personal disposition as well. I think he stands up there with Billy Graham in integrity and commitment. His thought, like the Gospel, has a life of its own and takes its force from belief, not ego.

Selfish?: I would not expect a lobster to have much regard for others, so Peterson's opening gambit in 12 Rules for Life is a bit risky. But it would seem that his foundational study of totalitarianism (Hitler, Stalin, Mao) puts him in the caring camp for the millions of people who suffered and died under those regimes. And his preoccupation with the virtue of sacrifice, the necessity of suffering and the quest for (not expedient) meaning makes him a rather poor choice for the role of bully.

Evidence?: It is telling that Peterson's twitter feed tweets out every scathing review that comes along. He's comfortable letting the evidence speak for itself (and of that, there is no shortage). If you're looking for evidence try Google (eg. search Jordan Peterson gay marriage). Or you can glance over the Quick Links page on this site and zero in on something particular.

 

 

 

Henry J. de Jong